Apparently Heathenry just needs to mimic Starhawk. *Sarcasm*

Jon Upsal has posted an excellent article here deconstructing the latest attack on our traditions to come out of G&R, in which a writer (who does not deign to share his own religious background) decides that he can fix all of Heathenry’s problems: it just has to forget about the Norse Gods, forget about our traditions, sublimate our theologies and sacred stories to radical left wing politics, and become like Starhawk’s Reclaiming. 

unicorn crapping

This is not the first nor will it be the last salvo in this war started by Rhyd and co. on our traditions, on polytheism itself and at the end of the day, it’s the traditions that matter not the people or the politics. We need to stand together in solidarity because these “gods and radicals” folks are coming for us; they made that quite clear and what’s more important : they’re coming for our traditions. Folks, when someone tells you that they’re coming for you it’s kind of stupid not to listen to them


Posted on April 6, 2016, in community, Heathenry, Polytheism, Uncategorized and tagged , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 15 Comments.

  1. Wow, I stopped reading G&R after the recent fascism crap, but I decided it was important to make a comment on this article over at the site because they are seriously becoming quite the echo chamber as everyone alienated by them just leaves and all that remains are their own twisted perspectives.

    I find it really ridiculous that they actually suggest we should change our religious traditions so they don’t have the appearance of being similar to those espoused by racists. That’s letting the worst elements dictate not only the public conversation, but our private practices. Once again, it’s about people, not gods.

    Liked by 7 people

  2. songofscotland

    I don’t even want to give Radicals Saying Rubbish my click so I’m always glad to read articles where people quote the important bits! Thank you for sharing!

    Though I do wish Rhyd & Friends would get real jobs – ones that don’t involve policing everyone else’s traditions. For a group of folks who claim to believe in freedom, they certainly aren’t very fond of allowing others their own.

    Liked by 3 people

    • “Get a real job” Really? This is the level you are headed for? come off it.

      Look, I really really wish people would stop assuming G&R is some homogeneous gestalt mind who all think alike. We really bloody don’t. If you have a problem – criticise the writer rather than lump everyone in and make rather weak attempts at insult. I have a job – a damn fine one.

      For the record – I agree with most of the folk here, Asatru doesn’t need eclecticism.


      • songofscotland

        Come off what, exactly? If they had something to occupy their time other than thought policing others, they’d do themselves a favour. Instead, they are spending copious amounts of time attacking things they don’t believe in (Halstead) or claiming anybody who holds traditions close are fascists (Rhyd & Friends). So yes… they do need jobs.

        If they don’t think alike, their behaviour and words across social platforms are doing a great job of convincing me otherwise. I’ve seen plenty of comments defending and upholding Rhyd’s ridiculousness from many of these writers.

        Additionally, I did criticize the writer with my statement. I said “Rhyd & Friends”. You know, the folks responsible for reprehensible attacks on tradition like this.


      • I am also one of the writers for G&R


  3. Did it ever occur to them that if people wanted to belong to a trad like Reclaiming that they’d, you know, actually go ahead and join Reclaiming ?

    People are drawn to where their interests and religious needs call them. Why is it that the G &R people don’t get that just as not everyone needs the same medicine different people desire very different forms of religious expression. Not every path is or needs to be for everyone.

    Why is it so important to G&R that Polytheists edit/change to be “acceptable” to their standards ? Why do they seem so “oppressed ” by people who are minding their own business and in many cases were already vigilant in watching for racist,sexist etc elements trying to pull in their adherents ? Who benefits from the creation of this strife ?

    Liked by 2 people

  4. It’s bad enough with the Christians and now the Atheists wanting to do away with us. Now we have Fascist Pagans coming for us as well.


  5. Starhawk?!
    Strange that G&R hasn’t labeled Reclaiming as an authoritarian or even fascist organization trying to take over paganism…
    There is a REASON I have never liked to identify with that word.

    Damn, I wish I had the cash to start holding PLCs just to help build bulwarks against Fascist Rainbow Unicorn Control Komitee.


  6. Asatru should look more like Starhawk’s “Reclaiming”??? (Sitting here with mouth wide open). Yes, and Christianity would be so much better if it was more like…oh I don’t know…Hinduism.


  7. Hmm, Christianity that might be willing to accept that Gods other than their God(s) exist and are valid to worship? You know Autumn Pulstar, that’s not such a bad idea…but the sarcasm is fully understood.


  8. You know, I think we are just going to have to get a bigger boat to go after Jaws, the Marxist shark school. (And I like sharks.)

    This all started with the uproar over Z. Budapest, where certain folks began to understand how to marshal the crowd to meet their ends. As the years went on, Paganism got more and more politicised with Pagans of Colour, Environment, and inclusion of Atheists. The trend ends up here with everyone being suspect if they are simply muddling through the landmines. It ended up that if you objected to something for whatever reasons, you were not only a bad Pagan, but an evil Person as well. (We need to take the boat out to find out who They are who are calling the shots.)

    It is an effort to marshal the masses for control and for vanity. Also, for personal reasons, which also play a part in all of this. (Revenge seems to be one motive. Frustration seems to be another. Sadness and grief.) What has happened is that there is now a missing middle – people who are concerned but not rabidly so. The middle got pushed to decide which side they are on, when they really don’t want to decide.

    As long as certain people are in power either by convincing people that they are right or by frightening people into being correct or by silencing people, then this will go on. SO much for the PAGAN UMBRELLA.

    As long as we are transitioning from one economic system to an unknown one, this will keep happening. People are frustrated that nothing that they were taught is working. They are losing everything they treasured. We live in a zombie economy now. SO people are ripe for manipulation by folks who offer to end their misery.

    Some more things. I think that certain folks fell into the groove or rut that Raven Kaldera describes in his book “Dealing with Deities,” which you mistake the rut for the reality of the Gods.

    Two, from what I have read, many Pagans are led to believe or believe that Polytheists are defining and determining who is Pagan or not. That these people are fighting Polytheists, so that they can be included. I wonder who the They who convinced people of the great power of the Polytheists.

    Three, and I will shut up…. The Aventine Trio of Ceres, Liber, and Libera were also protected of plebeian rights in Rome. One could in their devotion to these Gods do political work for the poor and disenfranchised. However, devotion to these Gods entail more than that. That is just one aspect of their cultus.


  9. ganglerisgrove

    if you can get it to me by may, i’d try to fit it into the WTW issue. put a philosophical or theological spin on it…i need to run it by the editors but i would really love to see you explore this.


  10. Well, I looked at the original article, and the thing is I agreed with a lot of what was said through most of it. The problems mentioned are the same old problems with racial ideas we’ve been talking about for a long time, and they’re definitely still problems. Yep, I agree Stephen McNallen sucks, etc.

    But then it’s like, “to fix these problems, Asatru needs to be more like Reclaiming…” OK you just totally lost me there! That’s a problem I have a lot with Gods and Radicals. I agree with a lot of what they say, and then they take it to these weird conclusions.

    But yeah, if you think that the way to save Asatru from racist beliefs is to turn it into a different pagan tradition, you’re basically saying that Asatru is inherently racist and cannot be made non-racist. So that means all of us who are trying to make Asatru inclusive and open to people of all backgrounds have been wasting our time. Great.

    There’s absolutely nothing in the myths about our gods believing you have to stick to your own “race” and stay away from other “races.” They sure don’t! No one worries about Thor being half Jotun. We still wear his hammer on our necks.

    Besides, our modern concept of “race” is even younger than monotheism! It’s less than a couple hundred years old. If we can reject monotheism, we can reject racism. It’s just that our ideas about race, like our ideas about theism, are so ingrained in our culture that it’s going to take some time for us to deprogram ourselves. But it doesn’t mean we should just give up.

    Liked by 2 people

%d bloggers like this: